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Noah Oken-Berg & Marisol Garcia on how they built Above The Fray

Noah Oken-Berg & Marisol Garcia on how they built Above The Fray

Staying ahead in ecommerce: "Do not settle for what is happening now. Always think about growth, always think about that future opportunity." - Marisol Garcia, co-founder Above The Fray

Commerce Famous Podcast, episode 21: Noah Oken-Berg and Marisol Garcia on how they built Above The Fray

In this episode of Commerce Famous, Ben Marks is joined by Noah Oken-Berg and Marisol Garcia, co-founders of Above The Fray.

Noah, with a background in the wireless world and agency space, alongside Marisol, a seasoned professional in public accounting, share their journey into ecommerce. Their discussion delves into the unique blend of instinct, necessity, and diverse expertise that catalyzed their agency's inception in the Pacific Northwest.

They unpack the essence of adaptability, the strengths of a global team, and the critical financial maneuvers that have steered their path. This episode offers a deep dive into ecommerce agency dynamics, enriched by Noah and Marisol's distinct perspectives, underscoring the power of collaboration and strategic vision in the digital commerce realm. Join us for an insightful exploration of the ecommerce landscape with two distinguished guests.

Listen to the episode right here or subscribe to Commerce Famous on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast player

The importance of diversity in business decision-making: "When you look at a business and you think about the board, everybody has a little bit of a different perspective, a different background, and having those different ideas can bring together solutions that just one person wouldn't be able to come up on their own." - Marisol Garcia

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Transcript of Commerce Famous episode 21, an interview with Noah Oken-Berg and Marisol Garcia

Ben Marks [00:00:37]: Hey, everyone, welcome to Commerce Famous. I'm your host, Ben Marks. Now with me today, we actually have a twofer. So we have Noah Oken-Berg, who is the CEO and co founder, along with his wife, Marisol Garcia, who is a CFO. Now they have above the fray, an agency operating out of the Pacific Northwest. I've had the pleasure of working with this team over the years. Without further ado, Noah, Marisol, welcome to Commerce Famous. Noah Oken-Berg [00:01:05]: Thanks, Ben. Marisol Garcia [00:01:06]: Thank you. Ben Marks [00:01:08]: I really appreciate you both taking time. I realize I'm taking two leaders out of the loop for about 30 minutes here to bang out this podcast, but it's a real treat to actually have two people on the podcast at once and then a couple at that. And I'd love to go right in with Noah. Like, your background. I mean, you came up, you came up. I saw on your cv you did, you were in the wireless world back in the early, the early aughts, and then eventually kind of found your way into some of the agency space. And then at some point, you know, you found partners in crime to build and put together, you know, 2017, yet another commerce agency. Now, I've had the pleasure of working directly with you all in my, my previous work at Magento during some interesting times in commerce that we'll get into in a moment. Ben Marks \[00:02:02\]: But I wanted to just ask what convinced you or showed you that there was an opportunity for both of you for your experience leading a company and then particularly finding something that was a different kind of offering in this space. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:02:23\]: I mean, it was kind of born out of, I guess, a paternal maternal instinct. Yeah. I'd been in that world before. Aaron Hunt and I, who was our co founder, had worked at another agency for a few years together. We had always talked about doing something, and then I was working at a company that was in software development, web development, web design, but not competing necessarily directly with e commerce. So, so it was more of an area that augmented it. And we were trying to get a SaaS platform off the ground. It was a little slower to launch than it expected. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:02:59\]: And we were getting married. We got married. We had a baby on the way then, and it was just sort of like everything kicked in, like, you know, gotta go hunt and provide and gather and, you know, feed, feed the children and stuff like that. And so we started a company on the side to kind of accelerate. Accelerate that. I guess it was just pure. Pure instinct, I could say. Ben Marks \[00:03:18\]: Okay, is that your experience as well, Marisol? Marisol Garcia \[00:03:22\]: I was born out of necessity, I would say. As you know, I come from a public accounting background and really always looking at those finances and where are we headed, and as a family and budget and everything else, and we're going to have a new child, and where is that going to lead us? And really trying to. You know, we've had conversations in the past about where our future goals were going to be, and it seemed like this was a great time to kind of dip the toe in the water, so to say, and kind of see what was happening. We both had stable careers at that point with that wonderful monthly paycheck that you always get. So kind of diving into that business world can be, at least for me, who was a little bit on the more conservative side, fiscally a little concerning. I like that consistency. So I thought this was a good. Well, I shouldn't say just me, but we thought this was a good opportunity where we both had that steady paycheck to kind of see what else we could do. Female Narrator \[00:04:27\]: Commerce famous is proudly presented by Shopware, the leading open source e commerce platform for mid market and lower enterprise merchants. More than 50,000 clients already processed over $25 billion in annual GMV through Shopware. Find out more about Shopware and the best value in e []( Ben Marks \[00:04:44\]: Dot okay, so just kind of on the strength of that reliable stream of income, you know, you get to take the chance. Now, I've had the pleasure of working, you know, working with, or at least being, you know, in the same kind of spheres as some great founders out there, including amazing founders in the agency space. You know, I've recently had Kevin Eichelberger, who was a founder of Blue Acorn, and basically the person who helped make my career possible in the first place. And I know even someone as rock solid of an operator as he is, there are times. It's never easy. There's never a set formula for success. So you all embarked on the above the fray adventure. And then, you know, not. Ben Marks \[00:05:36\]: Not too many years later, we wound up in this pandemic situation. I have to ask, if you don't mind sharing, what was that experience like for you all? Because there was this rapid compression of. Compression might be a generous term of cash flow and then sort of the reverse. In extreme, that came true not even a few months later. But again, this was about the time that I really feel like I got to know you. Noah, what was that experience like for you all? Noah Oken-Berg \[00:06:20\]: So Marisol mentioned how she likes the stability or was mentioning the comfort of a consistent paycheck. I'm in sales and business development. There's no consistency is an illusion. When you're in business development and sales, you're on the front lines, and you're there to. To help build that illusion for the rest of the company. And so I've always been in that role, so that it's. I mean, yeah, that was a really intense time, and it was really difficult for a lot of folks, ourselves included, everybody on the planet, especially those in business, that was watching it shift and unfold in front of their face. But by the same token, we worked with also a lot of other business owners and entrepreneurs. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:07:00\]: You know, our focus is B. Two B. You know, the ways that the platform partners, the way that our clients and the merchants and manufacturers that we work with responded was what I would expect. And what I really love about sort of the community, the extended community we work in, is that it's like, all right, great change is the only constant change is can. You know, it's neither good nor bad inherently. It just is. And so it's really up to us to grab the bull by the horns and figure out what we're going to do together. You know, how do we roll up our sleeves, get creative, how do we tackle this new sort of landscape that's in front of us? And there are the folks that kind of threw up their hands and said, you know, the world is ending, and, you know, I give up. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:07:44\]: And there's people that really got affected and didn't have the luxury of a lot of the things that we did. Being a remote, you know, virtual organization, the work that we did was not brick and mortar necessarily, though we do did work with a lot of folks at our brick and mortar, so they were affected, but we were able to help push the tools and advantages that we already knew existed for remote virtual digital commerce. To the folks that maybe hadn't embraced those as much, we instantly knew there was a responsibility on our shoulders. And all of us, you probably felt this, too. I'm sure I know you did, because we worked together during this time, and we got creative, and we figured out some stuff together that helped keep all of our organizations not just afloat, but really thriving. Coming out the other end of it. But that's what it took. It took that sort of the standard entrepreneurial vision of just like, hey, things will get thrown at me at any given moment. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:08:42\]: Let's be ready for it and let's adjust. Ben Marks \[00:08:45\]: And, Marisol, I mean, you must have had a particular view on this. Now, I can empathize because I actually took accounting in college. I mean, I dropped that shit after two weeks because it was an 08:00 a.m., class, and I just. I couldn't wrap my brain around it. And I. That's why today I actually pay decent money for someone who can wrap their brain around it. But for you, like, you, you know, you. You must have experienced that, you know, in a very particular way. Ben Marks \[00:09:14\]: You know, were you. And I get that it is amazing that because you were remote first, that became. That just became, like, such an advantage that you weren't paying for facilities that you couldn't use, that you already had everything set up for your company to be able to operate at a distance, virtually. Were there any takeaways from your perspective, Marisol? Marisol Garcia \[00:09:40\]: Yeah, really what I thought was interesting was we were able to pivot really quickly because of the way we are structured and kind of the things we have in place, we were able to really focus on what was going to keep us afloat right away. So while other people were kind of struggling, like, we don't have the infrastructure, we have to figure out what to do with our lease, what are we going to do with all this office space? We didn't have that. We were able to pivot quickly and really respond to what the environment was at that time. And we were also able to kind of take some of. I don't want to say advantage, but of some of the programs that were out there, you know, from a financial perspective, there was a lot of assistance that were out there for businesses, small businesses, emerging businesses. You know, we had PPP loans. We had, you know, actually, you know, the employer retention credits, things like that. While we weren't able to capture on everything, you know, piecing things here and there together to make sure that we had that safety net kind of was, I don't know, for me, monumental. Marisol Garcia \[00:10:47\]: Just for my comfort level, even if we weren't specifically having to dip into it at that point, we had something that, you know, we were able to plan for future and growth. Ben Marks \[00:11:00\]: Yeah, it was incredible. I mean, I. You know, and I should probably share with. With folks, you know, the colleague of mine at. I guess it was adobe at the time, but coming out of the Magento days, Peter Sheldon, who's over at Aragon now. But Peter, you know, Peter came up with this idea because we were hearing about. We were, you know, we had. We had some fantastic partners. Ben Marks \[00:11:20\]: And these businesses, thankfully, are still around, many of them who, overnight, as sharp as a lot of these founders are, hardly anyone figured on a pandemic that would shut things down so drastically and essentially just dry up capex overnight. A lot of businesses were faced with going from a position of strength and nothing but a history of success to literally, some of them were wondering if they could keep the lights on. And this is in the span of about a month to six weeks. And Peter had this great idea, like, hey, let's put people to work on the core product and let's help reinvest into. Specifically into the ecosystem that has, you know, enabled the business for all of us. And I think that was a great demonstration of a well curated ecosystem. And then watching how quickly those things turned around went the other way as e commerce really took off. It was interesting to see. Ben Marks \[00:12:39\]: You really did see the businesses that were, whether they had planned it or not, had that agility, had that flexibility, had that, you know, pivot mindset. And it seems like that's been. That was the case for ATF as well. Now, you know, now that we're in a thankfully steadier, slightly steadier time, what do you all. You know, what do you all see these days? What are the big trends for you? And then, Marisol, I have a specific question. I'll ask you just about your advice for others in this space, given your specific set of skills. But just for either of you, what do you see as the important trends today? Do you see anything interesting coming down the line? Noah Oken-Berg \[00:13:25\]: Yeah, I guess I'll go first. So you can ask the specific question of Mari there, since she has much more of a specific skill set than my generalist studio art background. You know, I think it's something that we've always kind of held as a given, but I'm starting to see it become a lot more accepted as the way it is. And I feel like there's this huge buzz around, like, sort of, like, buzzword and like, oh, b two b is this. This new thing? And it kind of evolved into, well, b two b is just like b two c. And, you know, really now I feel like it's starting to come around where it's. It's just understood that that is just how business is done. I mean, the sort of b two B mindset, the nuances, it's no longer sort of a trivial or sort of like a shiny thing or like some kind of, like, fashionable thing to talk about. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:14:19\]: It's people have settled into where we've been at for a while, which is understanding, you know, the way that businesses interact with each other, support each other, help grow each other's business, trade with each other, you know, sell to each other, you know. And I think that in some of those ways, being in this world of e commerce that we've been in for years together, Ben, we're seeing that a lot of these folks, especially, that we work with manufacturers and things like that. You say b, two b. And they just kind of, their eyes gloss over. They're like, you think that's just a buzzword. That's our lives. And we get that a lot of times e commerce doesn't have that ring to it. Folks eyes will just glaze over. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:15:01\]: You say e commerce, you say web design and web development, digital engagement, dealer engagement, distribution channels, things like that, all the things that surround it, all the other business systems. And I think really viewing the world of e commerce is a lot less of specifically the traditional mindset of e commerce and understanding that it's just part of commerce. Folks like yourself and myself, and we've known that for a while, but there's people, fringe operators and folks that are just coming into that fold that still think it's something that's this new hot trend, b two b. And those folks are becoming fewer and further between and really understanding that that's where it's at. Ben Marks \[00:15:42\]: And I remember when I started out in the agency world, I mean, this is like, you're really getting in 2008 up through, like, 2012. I'm still shocked to watch, like, spreadsheets going across the wire, or, I mean, literally, there were some, you know, there's plenty of EDI, and EDI is still a thing, but, you know, even orders coming in on fax, I mean, I remember that from some of the early rfps and going, wow. And so it has been interesting watching it keep up. Now, the thing I wanted to ask you, because it's pretty rare that I think I have someone on the podcast with your financial acumen. What are, you know, are there any, like, perspectives or tools or resources, ways of thinking that you think would benefit the different kind of operators in this space? And I'm thinking about your fellow, like, your fellow agency owners. I'm thinking about maybe to some degree, the, the tech vendors in the space, but also certainly for what you see happening with merchants over the last several years. Marisol Garcia \[00:16:51\]: Yeah. It's been really interesting to kind of see the development of our clients. Right when we started off, the clients were very smaller. The data, how things kind of all work together, the information, how it was transferred from, you know, front end all the way to the back end. What was the client really wanting and needing? And how could we take that information and really help them grow? Right where I think there is still room to grow amongst agencies and our clients. Is that data at the end? What information can we provide you with the tools that we give them to really be able to make business decisions that will impact them for the future growth and development. And so where I really, I really enjoy working is looking at that stuff. So what that person or what that order looks like at the beginning really can provide essential information and tools for those business owners to be able to figure out. Marisol Garcia \[00:17:56\]: Is this a line we want to continue? Should we be adding new things? What is that data that that information is providing us to grow and develop? Ben Marks \[00:18:06\]: Okay, well, okay. So, I mean, it's, to me, that seems in keeping with, you know, you, I would, my, how I conceive, you know, your role is like, you have very specific inputs, and there's a certain discipline about how you look at those inputs, how you measure them, probably how you set them up in the first place, and then, of course, the outputs. So it makes sense that that would be your sort of how you look at the business operations in general. And that seems like pretty accessible and achievable or actionable advice. Right. Just get some clarity around what you see going in and understand what's going out, and then you can figure out everything in between. Now you all have a business. Now, how big is ATF these days? How many employees do you have? Noah Oken-Berg \[00:18:52\]: We're just about 40 globally right now. Ben Marks \[00:18:55\]: And have you always had people working at ATF who were not based in the US? Did that start from day one? Noah Oken-Berg \[00:19:05\]: Day one, yeah. Yeah. So we, we had, you know, we've, we started off basically, we were all contractors, first of all. And so that was a beautiful time. And I remember when we first had to figure out, like, health insurance and. Ben Marks \[00:19:18\]: 1099S are compared comparatively easy. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:19:21\]: Yeah, exactly. It was like, wait. Oh, man. Now we gotta, you know, big kid, pants on, and actually do business stuff. But, you know, we, you know, we have, our model has always been to find the best and brightest on planet Earth, wherever they happen to put their head down at night or sometimes in the morning, depending on what your sleep schedule is. But, you know, and that's that's been, you know, from working at other organizations, other agencies, we've made connections in various regions. You know, it's an international community, you know, better than anybody. And so to take full advantage of that has always been part of the model. Ben Marks \[00:19:59\]: But it's not, you know, we know, as an industry, it's not easy to pull off. I mean, I think there is a bit of a selection bias, or depending on how you're thinking about it, and an availability heuristic, because you do see people who just. Who think offshore work is always bad. Always. And I've done my best throughout my career. I mean, first of all, I had to figure that out for myself and then even go back and actually amend, apologize for indulging a shitty take like that, because it's really. We only hear about the projects that don't work well. Right? The great projects are great projects, and they stay wherever they were. Ben Marks \[00:20:42\]: But we know it's not easy to operate across multiple time zones, across multiple cultures. And you all seem to have found that formula. And I remember even there were some real trying moments during the pandemic with your team, but you were able to keep a good chunk of the team there and together. And I have to believe, I have to attribute that to, really, the culture and opportunity that you put in front of your team and above the fray. And then if I take Marisol's point about watching, sort of understanding, watching and really using the data going through, that has to be part a component of the success to effectively running a team that is not co located. That's whether co located in the US or in North America or spread out around the world. Is that. Am I on the. Ben Marks \[00:21:41\]: On the money with that? Noah Oken-Berg \[00:21:42\]: Yeah, I mean, definitely on the money. I think that, you know, as you were talking, I was. I was kind of boiling it all down to sort of a root, you know, differentiator. I think we're all kind of products of the trauma that we've experienced, right. And, like, not to get too esoteric here, but take it to pull. Ben Marks \[00:22:00\]: I'm marking the tape there. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:22:02\]: I mean, so listen, so hear me out here. You mentioned, you know, we've had those bad experiences. People we've worked with, merchants, manufacturers, agencies that have worked with overseas teams, they see something go off the rails and they place that blame on the language barriers, the time difference, the cultural differences. But if you've done this enough, sure, those are all factors, but those are all excuses for things not working out. I've also seen people that work in my own very backyard screw things up way worse than anybody halfway across the globe could have done it. And it doesn't matter if you can go kick in their door and find them, who's really going to go? I mean, maybe I know a few people in our industry that might go kick in the door, but, you know, people usually don't do that. So it doesn't really matter if you have the right system set up, if you, if you're encouraging the right behavior, if you're finding the right people, if you're putting in the right process systems and tools around those people, it's, it's just a, it's just a consideration location and those things. So, you know, that being said, sure, are there, are there places where, you know, in the world that have, I mean, you know, we've seen how like, like different platforms, you know, in certain regions have been built out of those regions and, you know, so there's definitely areas where a community or a culture is built up around a particular, you know, type of work and be that software development, web development, e commerce. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:23:24\]: But by the same token, it's, you know, it's, it's not using any of those things as, I think, an excuse. And I think that's where, you know, when you, when you, when you touch one stove and it's hot, you know, then, and then, and then every, you don't touch any more stoves. I guess that's probably a good idea. Bad analogy. Don't touch stoves even if they're hot or not. But the point being is don't, you know, don't draw correlation, you know, from causation. Right. I mean, there's, you know, there's ways to accomplish these things. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:23:53\]: And it's also, if you don't know the answers, find somebody who does. I struggled for a long time building our overseas team until we got some of the right people on board here that were able to sort of see through all the noise, see things that I didn't. I'm a sales guy. We had an accountant, a designer. You know, those are the people that started our company. It wasn't until we got, you know, true, we had amazingly talented engineers, but we didn't have true engineering leadership until we had certain people on board. And they don't care where you're on planet Earth, they know how to manage that and organize that to success. Ben Marks \[00:24:27\]: I mean, that's a, that's a. Yes, that's a tough one. I should actually just go ahead and mention, I remember, I vividly remember somewhere around the age of six, wondering how quickly the eye of a stove gets hot. And I tested this with my fingertip. Turns out it gets hot really quickly. And that is hopefully a lesson you learn once. Yeah. So I think that makes sense. Ben Marks \[00:24:51\]: I do want to ask. So there's so many people in this business, I think so many founders leaders. There are a lot of. I think there's a lot of shared context there. There can be a lot of knowledge that it gets learned sometimes the hard way. As you go from company to company, do you all interact with other agency owners and just to compare notes and take advice, delight. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:25:28\]: Yeah, I mean, we. I had something going for a few years. We actually started it back. I think it was kind of pandemic era, the shutdown era, but it was. We were doing something weekly or monthly, I should say. I think it was on, like, second or third Thursday, where we called it rising Tide, but it was literally just getting together with a bunch of other owners or business leaders to, you know, compare notes, compare, you know, stories from the trenches scars. I think it's a huge advantage that I get to work with two other co founders, Marisol and Aaron. I'm really blessed and privileged that way because I'm not isolated when the proverbial or even the real shit hits the fan. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:26:09\]: I got people that I can sit down and I got people I can sit down and consort with. Are we getting connection issues here? Is it all good? Nope. Nope. Ben Marks \[00:26:20\]: All good here. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:26:22\]: Yeah. So. And I. And I acknowledge that a lot. You know, there's a lot of professional organizations where, you know, like, locally and other chapters of things where, you know, solo preneurs and, you know, solo founders and things like that get together. And I. And I made me realize, I was like, I got something I'm a little bit, you know, lucky to have, which is other people to commiserate with, to cry on their shoulders, to, you know, bleed on their shoulder, whatever it might be on the stuff that you go through. Ben Marks \[00:26:48\]: Yeah, probably. If you have. If you have great founders in the room, they. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:26:51\]: Yeah. Ben Marks \[00:26:51\]: You all compliment. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:26:52\]: Yeah. Ben Marks \[00:26:53\]: Mari, go ahead, please. Marisol Garcia \[00:26:54\]: Oh, yeah. Just to add a little bit on top of that, I mean, we all kind of come. When you look at business and you think about a board, you know, everybody has a little bit of different perspective, different background, and having those different ideas can really bring together solutions and things that just one person wouldn't be able to talk about or come up on their own or better, collectively. And so it is really nice to have the three of us, but on top of that, that rising tide, I think, during that pandemic era is when it was. It started. It was nice to know that you weren't on an island. It wasn't just ATF who experienced these issues. And shortly coming out of the pandemic, you know, all of the issues with finding talent and how that was going on. Marisol Garcia \[00:27:42\]: And still to this day, it's difficult to find talent. You know, kind of going back to the question previously, you know, it starts with the interview process and really trying to figure out if you're the right fit for ATF one. We're kind of hope everybody has a skill set. Right. But really, do you have that extra little piece that can really thrive in an ATF culture and environment? So it's really nice to know that you're not on an island and, you know, going to different conferences, meeting other agencies, having conversations. I come from a little bit of a different background, so they kind of look at me like, you don't know anything about e commerce. Like, well, I can talk to you about accounting, but it's nice to have that camaraderie. Ben Marks \[00:28:32\]: Yeah, well, I mean, I would think woe unto the person who wants to dismiss you because, you know, you're. You're. You know, you're just a finance person. Right. There is. There's clearly a discipline and a perspective there. In fact, I'd love to. I'd like to end this. Ben Marks \[00:28:48\]: This conversation with a question for you, Marisol. If, you know, if there's. Is there. Is there, you know, one thing, one weird trick or nose? Is there just. I can imagine that in the space, just based on the, you know, hundreds of agencies I've met and chatted with over the years, is there one thing or resource or perspective that you would want to impart to that group if you had them assembled in front of you at a keynote? Just that would make. Is something that you think would make a material difference in how they run their business and hopefully help them have experience, more stability or more success, what would that be? Noah Oken-Berg \[00:29:36\]: And you do this for me on a daily basis. These are things she's throwing at me. Marisol Garcia \[00:29:41\]: On the daily basis, I think, when I think of it, and it's not just, I guess, unique to the e commerce world, is just staying on the offense. Do not settle for what is happening now. Always thinking about growth, always thinking about that future opportunity. Invest in yourself as a company and just really get so caught up in the day to day transactional, putting out fires, making sure that this client's happy or whatever. We're doing on that daily task that we don't necessarily look to the future. And so always looking for that future, that next product, that next opportunity, how are we going to continue to grow? Noah Oken-Berg \[00:30:24\]: I love it. Ben Marks \[00:30:25\]: Look up and out. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:30:26\]: Does that mean that you're approving that headcount that I've been asking for for a while? Is that. Is that what I just heard? Marisol Garcia \[00:30:31\]: That'll be a later discussion. Ben Marks \[00:30:34\]: I thought I had interesting, you know, dinner table discussions with my wife. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:30:38\]: Yeah, our son. Our son often is like, can we talk about something besides business at dinner? He's six and, you know, I get it. Ben Marks \[00:30:47\]: But you know what? Probably going to end up being a founder that'll outpace all of us just because of that. Well, hopefully. Noah, CEO, above the fray Marx hole CFO, above the fray co founders, along with Aaron Hunt, who I guess I should probably get on the podcast sooner rather than later. Well, yeah, I really, again, I appreciate you both taking time. It's not often that I get to waste the time of two C suite folk at once, but I appreciate the conversation and I look forward to the next time we all get to see each other out and about in the world. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:31:23\]: World. Ben Marks \[00:31:23\]: So thanks again. Marisol Garcia \[00:31:25\]: Thank you. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:31:26\]: Yeah, thanks for having us on, Ben. It's been fun. Far from a waste of time. I was hoping this get, like a little, like Emilio Estevez, like young guns, Billy the kid. Like, I'll make you famous. When. When this came on, like, I was thinking there'd be a little sound bite or something like that for commerce famous. Ben Marks \[00:31:40\]: But, you know, I haven't. I haven't hit stop yet, so, I mean, and if you want to. And if you want to do young guns quotes, well, we can go there. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:31:49\]: Huckleberry? Yeah, no, I see that chicken. Oh, yeah. All right. That's beautiful. You know, we had to have a good ending. I love it. That's. Ben Marks \[00:31:59\]: That's, uh. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:32:00\]: Yeah, we could. Ben Marks \[00:32:01\]: Maybe I should do another podcast. You know, movie, movie quotes. No, but guys, thanks again, really. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:32:05\]: It's. Ben Marks \[00:32:06\]: It's. It's a pleasure to work with. It's a pleasure to work with real capable operators. I find I learn a lot every day in this business, and today was no exception. So I'll. I'll see you soon. Marisol Garcia \[00:32:17\]: Thank you. Noah Oken-Berg \[00:32:17\]: Beautiful thing. Thanks, Ben. Appreciate you.

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